Do naturopath's children need protecting from their own parents?!

The way I see it is that the anti-medicine lot are no different to the religious crowd. Would it be ok for for a couple to be praying for their kid or refusing them treatment because "it's against our faith".

No, the social services have been brought in to enforce care on children both in the UK AND the US - so much for freedom of speech there - you can decide for yourself, but the courts decide for your kids if it is deemed to be required so much for Marc: " That means that people get to have freedom to make choices about their lives" You do, but not for anyone else - including your kids.

" I would fight and defend her freedom with my own life if it came down to it." well it's come down to it and I don't see any reports of additional deaths. So your word is worth, well, what exactly?

"First - - She's NOT a naturopathic doctor. And again, I present to you the case for proper regulation."

Says who? She is unless you can prove otherwise.

"I AM glad I'm not making life and death decisions daily. :) I didn't choose trauma medicine for a reason. ... naturopathic doctor"

No, you didn't choose medicine - full stop. There is medicine and then there is the alternative to medicine.

So, so sum up. Too many kids have died because of parents' beliefs, the courts have intervened before and will do again to protect those who are unable to protect themselves. No parent has the right to control their children unto death, once an adult they can do what they (and the courts) deem fit. I don't really care if an adult chooses to kill themselves using quackery so long as they are of sound mind. I do care about them imposing the same quackery on children.

Oh I also care about the quacks praying/preying on the gullible.

The person in question was not a professional Naturopath.
When you consider that conventional medicine kills and maims hundreds of thousands of people annually, why would anyone focus on a rare isolated event, other than for some propagandist notions?
The children of Naturopaths and Homeopaths are healthier than the children of MD's. You can bank on it.

something similar happened here some years back,young lad got infected eye the dr wanted to treat it but parents refused the boy died so it a grey area.but i think more will happen.both usa health system and uk one alot to be desired at the moment People will turn to other things..mind you i think your health service worse than ours

I asked a similar question and the prevailing opinion is that parents should be able to do whatever they want with their children short of loping off their head with a rusty chainsaw.

I'm not a naturopath, but I am a firm believer in you minding your personal business and I'll take care of mine. Just because your ideas aren't the same as mine doesn't give you the right to try and impose your thoughts on me or my family.

We've already got negligence laws on the books; I see no reason to overfeed the beast by granting CPS any more leeway to separate kids from their parents.

No, I don't believe the government exists to force people to "do the right thing".

If your question is whether there is an increase in this type of behavior, then I believe that there is not. In fact, I believe that, overall, our population is becoming better educated and understands better the necessities of medical treatment.

Accepting that your child's spinal cord is damaged is a very difficult process. There are stages of grief to go through, the first of which is denial (followed by bargaining, anger, grief and acceptance). That parent is not coping well, and hasn't got past the denial (it's not really damaged. It's just a bruise) and bargaining (maybe if I put some herbs on it, it will heal on its own). That parent is doing everything that they can to avoid that difficult fourth stage -- grief -- and has quite some distance to travel before they get to "acceptance".

I am grateful that there were sensible people to step in and help to save this kid. What a tragedy!!!

Are you a redditor dave? I'm not sure about whether we will see more cases like this but I do agree that the state should step in when the parents act in a way that is not in the interest of a minor. What gets my goat is how the mother was so deluded that she thought her quickie naturopath degree gives her medical opinion the same weight as that of a specialist.

First - - She's NOT a naturopathic doctor. And again, I present to you the case for proper regulation.

Second - according to the article, the boy still in hospital ICU, getting ongoing medical care. The article also says "...Jefferson doctors had given conflicting diagnoses of his injury and that several disagreed over the need for surgery."

Third- - Spinal injuries often cannot be properly evaluated immediately, because the degree of swelling due to trauma affects assessment. Once time elapsed, they may find that the injury was less severe than initially anticipated and the rods/screws were not necessary (that's likely the source of the conflicting medical opinions to which the mom refers.) No way of knowing that without access to the MEDICAL information.

In answer to your question...
I cant see why this isolated case would suggest we should anticipate a general rise in the population of people with "Mickey Mouse" degrees who require legal action to prevent them harming their own children.

It's far less sensational when you acknowledge that she's not an qualified ND, there's conflicting medical advice, the lad is getting on-going care and his condition is improving significantly. It renders this tantamount to just one concerned mother choosing to pray over her son, maintain watchful waiting in the ICU as she decides what is the best course of medical treatment.

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*rolls eyes* I'm willing to bet the judge had access to information regarding the medical care that was not provided in the original article. (Which is what I said was necessary to comment on the medicine.) So how is that disagreeing with me, exactly? Glad the fellow's getting the necessary care!

But yes, actually. I AM glad I'm not making life and death decisions daily. :) I didn't choose trauma medicine for a reason. Cheers! And happy sensationalizing, mate!!
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Nitram - easy to prove!! She did not graduate from an accredited naturopathic medical institution. She did not write (let alone pass) North American board examinations for naturopathic physicians. She is not registered with the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians. Not an ND.

I paid for med school by summering as a medic, actually. Drove it home very clearly that trauma medicine is not my bag. I'm really good at it... but I don't like the lack of closure. Safe a life in the immediate and send them off to someone else's care, never see them again? Not for me. I like to SEE them get better.

As you're aware, proper naturopathic medicine precisely IS science based medicine. I neither feel the need to convince you personally, nor do I much care that you put not stock in it. Not everyone has to like what I do. Not everyone has to find value in what I do. Your opinion or "belief" bears no weight on the matter. Full stop. ;)

naturopathic doctor

Well since you are a Brit and im in the US let me just say this...

In the united states we have freedom. That means that people get to have freedom to make choices about their lives. Remember when the Nazi's were bombing England and wanted to turn you all into Germans? Remember when the Nazis would experiment on human beings with no oversight or consequences for killing innocent people? Surely you are not saying that the medical community should have the right to tell every patient what they have to do with their health?! Where is the right to decide what is good for you and not good for you. So maybe in the UK it is acceptable for the MDs to bully themselves into personal freedoms but not in the US.

I dont personally agree with what happened in this case and what the mother did, but I respect her freedom. I would fight and defend her freedom with my own life if it came down to it. Your position is that the masses are just too stupid to know any better so we have to do it for them. Sounds a lotr like a dictator to me. And a big applaud for all of those who point out about the thousands that die under the realm of medical failures ever single day.

Hey D.Dave Looks like you're up to you're old tricks again. With the high rate of deaths due to Mainstream medicine errors and hundreds of thousands of people dying each year to this alone. Do you blame people for taking their childs life into their own hands.

I agree that in such situations as the one you mention that a doctor is the one to call because of it's physical nature. But that's it!

Your snobbish attitutude does nothing to help you and you're skeppie friends. People that go to doctors get this all the time and you only solidify these thoughts in people's mind. Good job D.Dave

Angrydoc..What gets my goat is how the mother was so deluded that she thought her quickie naturopath degree gives her medical opinion the same weight as that of a specialist.

How bout.." what gets my goat is that mainstream doctors kill people everyday THOUSANDS of people and get away scott free. While their families or at home suffering the lost. I'm sure the people that die from a doctor is wayyyyyyy greater than from people that take their health into thier own hands. YOUR OWNED HERE! Does that get your GOAT?

We can go on and on about this...What about the doctor that was in the news recently..The one that disreguarded biopsy mole samples and told the patients that they had cancer when they really did'nt. Made a fortune from their insurance companies and Uncle Sam. All the while the patients were left with heavy emotional and Physical scars. All in the name of money. This was on world news in the US. THAT GETS MY GOAT!!!

Are you going after quacks, child abusers, or our legal system, dave?
I'll assume the folks in the grey area in-between, however....the matter is a little more complicated than "some people really need to have their head examined."

{{U.S. history has proved that we can commit plenty of atrocities that at the time were VERY legal....it wasn't until the Nuremberg code was adapted in1948 that human research subjects were protected. Before then prisoners, the retarded, mentally ill, orphans and members of the military were all available targets for all sorts of inhumanities 'in the name of science', so let's not one get holier than thou in that regard.}}

given the fact that many medical doctor hypocrites refuse their own treatments is more than sufficient prima facie cause not to trust them.

Although their choice of action is seriously questionable, i am appaled that this child has been taken away from his parents.
I was under the impression that in cases where a chiild needed any kind of intervention consent must be granted by the parents.
Clearly the medical profesion did not agree with their descision making so decided to put it through the courts and have now got custordy of him.
What now?
Will he be forced to have spinal surgery?
What if he doesn't want to have it?
Do you see how dangerous this is?
What else is going to be forced on us from on high?
I also need to point out that if he is so critically injured and his spine so damaged, there is a good chance that the surgery will not be successful and he will be no better off. Should he be forced to do this anyway?
There is a chance surgery will kill him. His parents may prefer him to be tetraplaegic but still alive. He may have a different opinion.
i do appreciate that they may have his best interests at heart but anyone who works in altmed will tell you they regulary see patients who are no better and sometimes worse off after medical procedure and often a lot poorer.

Some people do indeed make descisions which are dangerous but in my opinion so do the medical profession and the governments at times. In a relatively free society we do have the right to challenge those in Authority because although I agree the parents don't always know what is best for their child neither do the Authorities always know and everyone understands that.
We also don't live in totalitarian despotic states where we must do what we are told. For better or worse I prefer choice.

Personally I would rather this effort was spent taking children off parents who have alcohol or drug dependencies or enforcing basic primary care on children whose parents can't afford it.

All I can say is If they do perform any surgery on this child i hope they don't expect the parents to foot the bill.

Well thats my 2 cents.