Chiropractor and massage therapist together?!

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Mr. E writes: "see an hio method upper cervical specific chiropractor".

ROFL!

"HIO" chiropractors believe ALL disease (OK — 95%) is due to a misalignment of a single (topmost) vertebra called the "Atlas". ALL HIO treatments for ALL diseases/maladies/deformities — everything from cancer to hemorrhoids to bad breath — involve manipulations of this single vertebra at the top of the spine. Mr. E knows that even mainstream chiropractors laugh at HIO chiropractic methods.

Massage Therapists are in general less quacky than chiropractors, but many Massage Therapists tolerate or practice nonsensical altmed mumbo-jumbo. You really need to see a Physiotherapist, or better yet a Physiatrist (note the spelling), if you want to be relatively safe from altmed crackpottery.

Do NOT waste your time and money seeing an osteopath outside the USA. Cranial Ostopaths such as "Lightning" treat their patients/victims by putting their hand on the victim's skull and commanding the brain fluids to change direction. Or, they like to pinch victims' bums... Osteopaths get no respect anywhere in the world except in the USA, where they get real medical training.

ADDED
Marc writes: "At trial, under a heated cross-examination..., Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam...This was a major revelation since Barrett had provided supposed expert testimony as a psychiatrist and had testified in numerous court cases. Barrett also had said that he was a legal expert even though he had no formal legal training."

Sigh... This is an old canard brought up by altmed cranks who know nothing of either medicine or law.

Dr. Barrett did a full residency in Psychiatry. He practiced in the USA at a time when "Board Certification" was controversial and unnecessary. (Board Certification only became a de-facto necessity for NEW specialists in the ~1980s and later, mainly for accreditation and payment scale purposes by private insurance companies). Barrett had a full license to practice Medicine and call himself a Psychiatrist by virtue of extensive formal training. The Federal Government agreed and employed him as a titled Psychiatrist for a long time.

The term "medical legal expert" ("expert witness") has a formal meaning in jurisprudence that has nothing to do with whether the expert/witness is trained in law. Judges decide to accept or reject a prospective witness based on many factors — none of them having to do with formal training in law.

http://quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedT…

Sorry to hear of your problems.I have been a massage therapist/trigger point therapist for 24 years.First of all,have you had a medical evaluation? What could present as muscle and joint pain could be caused by something more serious. If so,you might be suffering from myofascial pain syndrome and can benefit from myofascial trigger point therapy....http://myofascialtherapy.org/myofascial-… It is not massage therapy,much more effective. As for going to a chiropractor,well as you can see,a lot of people don't think it is a good idea. Chiropractors are a funny lot,they think everything can be fixed by cracking your joints. I have found in my 24 years that just isn't the case,but that is your call...good luck.

Massage therapy after a Chiropractic adjustment is ideal. Before an adjustment your muscles have adapted to your body being out of alignment. Once it's been realigned the massage therapy helps everything stay in the right position. You'll need fewer Chiropractic adjustments to make things stay where they're supposed to be.
Our bodies are very adaptable. If you break your arm and don't have it reset it will heal in the broken position. Hardly ideal, but that's what happens.

It's unbelievable that some people are still spewing ignorant nonsense about Chiropractic. Because it's a competitive and better alternative than drugs and surgery a lot of MD's 20 or more years ago would sometimes try to discourage patients from trying it. The Chiropractors took the AMA to court on an anti-trust suit in the 1980's and the AMA was forced to stop running down Chiropractic and spreading lies about it's effectiveness. The judge ruled that the evidence for Chiropractic was overwhelmingly positive and of tremendous benefit to patients with muskuloskeletal problems.
Despite all this and the fact that Chiropractic is a well respected profession worldwide, you still see people on here making ludicrously naive and childish remarks.

most of the time muscles have chronic pain and stiffness the cause is nerve interference. in most cases, it is muscle problems which cause joint problems, since neurogenically weak muscles do not support the joints they attach to adequately, making the patient prone to pain and injury from instability. you will likely find that correction of your nerve interference is sufficient to resolve most or all of your muscle complaints. see an hio method upper cervical specific chiropractor. do not waste your time with a medically oriented "neuromusculoskeletal" therapist posing as a chiropractor. ( there's no excuse for gary's continuing disinformation. i have explained chiropractic numerous times simply enough for a 5 year old to understand it.unfortunately, apropos must regurgitate the lies he's swallowed. if he had the least knowledge of anatomy, he would know that the spinal cord conveys nearly all the nerve signals to all the parts of the body, so it is simple to see how pressure on the cord from a misaligned vertebra which surrounds it could potentially affect most anything in the body. his degree of astonishment at the truth is the measure of his ignorance and lack of discernment).

The research literature shows that Chiropractic is only beneficial for temporary lower back pain relief. That's it. Chiropractors make many bogus claims that they can't support scientifically which is why they are generally regarded as quacks. Chiropractic is also risky. Massage provides only temporary relief too, but probably has more overall benefit than chiropractic as it works the muscles and is relaxing (depending on the type of massage). If you want to address the problem, you should consider physiotherapy or a musculoskeletal doctor.

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EDIT: @Mr E, you are lying as usual. I am not providing disinformation, and to support what I have said:

Ernst E (2008). "Chiropractic: a critical evaluation". J Pain Symptom Manage 35 (5): 544–62.
"With the possible exception of back pain, chiropractic spinal manipulation has not been shown to be effective for any medical condition.... The concepts of chiropractic are not based on solid science and its therapeutic value has not been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18280…

And you have not once in my memory explained chiropractic. All you do is claim it will cure whatever the asker is asking about. I hope this display of dishonesty will influence the asker away from chiropractic.

Please read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Singh…
http://www.chirobase.org/

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EDIT: @marc, your personal attack on Dr Barrett does not invalidate anything on the chirobase website. You are attacking the player, not the ball. Please point out any errors you perceive at chirobase and we can address them (good luck with that.... personal attack arguments are usually the last resort of desperate people).

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EDIT: @marc, I have looked very hard at the chiro literature, I've read study after study - all supplied to me by chiros as evidence of efficacy. I'm sorry but you just don't have anything - the studies are all poor quality, mostly pilot studies, uncontrolled, unblinded, biased, etc etc. This is why people like Simon Singh publicly call chiro bogus for making claims of curing childhood asthma, colic, ear infection and immune disorders. I'm sure you are aware of Simon's recent libel victory in the UK, where 1 out of 4 chiros are under investigation for making such bogus claims. On top of that, chiropractic is based in mystical nonsense like innate intelligence and the flawed subluxation complex.

If you are going to make fallacious arguments like attacking Dr Barrett personally but being unable to debunk his claims, then skeptics will pounce on you every time.

A massage therapist is the truthful version of a chiropractor. As you can see from Mr E's answer, chiropractors will make up any old rubbish to get your money.

Anything a chiro can do, a massage therapist can do cheaper and more honestly.

You might as well just go to two different massage therapists. It would be just as helpful and less likely to kill you with a vertebral artery stroke.

Give it a try and maybe add acupuncture treatments. Be sure that you are seeing a well qualified practitioner. If in the USA they should be licensed in their field. For the Acupuncture, do not go to a Chiropractor who "does acupuncture" go to a Licensed Acupuncturist who is NCCAOM Certified.

Each of these fields has their own advantages, you may find that you like one over the other or that you don't care for a particular practitioner. Look around, don't give up immediatly and get referrals from those you know.

You may also want to try a Physical Therapist or Occupational Therapist.

You do find chiro's that do massage techniques and some employ them in their practices to work with their patients.

There is a lot of choice with manual therapy. You need to find one that suits your body.
As well as a Chiro or Massage therapist you can see a physiotherapist or (outside the US) an Osteopath.
In the US 95% of osteopaths do no manual therapy at all and you may as well see a conventional doctor. The 5% that do are outstanding traditional osteopaths.

A physiatrist is effectively a non surgical Orthopaedic doctor that practices a form of Physiotherapy. They will do a combination of manual therapy and may mix it with procedures such as cortisone injections. This being the case if you are in the US you may just as well see one of the 5% of Osteopaths. Outside the US this isn't a bad option as its a nice bridge between a physiotherapist and an orthopaedic surgeon.

As for strokes. i looked up statistics in the past. The chances of a Vertebral artery disection are from 1 : 1 million - 1 : 4 million adjustments.
its as likely to happen from a chiropractic C-spine adjustment as from having your hair washed in a hair dresser. This is actually a known occurance and referred to as beauty parlor syndrome.

The chance of serious harm or death from chiropractic adjustments are considerably less than from prescribed medication.

As for Mr Barrett.....
Thanking the Chiro that replied for the post:o)
He hasn't actually broken the law but would you trust him?
More fool you if you would.

And as for Kalos.....
Well he's moved his personal vendetta away from UK Osteo's to Chiro's now.
Lets see what other insults and misrepresentations he comes up......

edit:
###Dr. Barrett did a full residency in Psychiatry. He practiced in the USA at a time when "Board Certification" was controversial and unnecessary. (Board Certification only became a de-facto necessity for NEW specialists in the ~1980s and later, mainly for accreditation and payment scale purposes by private insurance companies). Barrett had a full license to practice Medicine and call himself a Psychiatrist by virtue of extensive formal training. The Federal Government agreed and employed him as a titled Psychiatrist for a long time.####
An Osteopathic student could fail their finals in the UK and set up shop in Italy calling themselves "Osteopath". This wouldn't be breaking the law but I wouldn't recommend anyone see them.
Kalos's Argument is the most ridiculous strawman argument. HE FAILED HIS EXAMS.
HE MAY NOT HAVE HAD TO RETAKE THEM TO PRACTICE BUT HE FAILED.

###The term "medical legal expert" ("expert witness") has a formal meaning in jurisprudence that has nothing to do with whether the expert/witness is trained in law. Judges decide to accept or reject a prospective witness based on many factors — none of them having to do with formal training in law.###
Interesting that in this case it doesn't matter that he's not qualified. However correct. Expert doesn't imply qualification by default. it does imply Knowledge though. Someone who has no legal training or any training in altmed would not satisfy me as suitably knowledgable to be an expert witness.

#####Do NOT waste your time and money seeing an osteopath outside the USA. Cranial Ostopaths such as "Lightning" treat their patients/victims by putting their hand on the victim's skull and commanding the brain fluids to change direction. Or, they like to pinch victims' bums... Osteopaths get no respect anywhere in the world except in the USA, where they get real medical training.####

We do get extensive training to MEDICALLY SCREEN our patients actually.
now I get it. This is about the blogger visiting an Osteopath mistaking theraputic touch with erotic touch and then getting hurt and feeling rejected when he was told to get dressed and leave immediately by the male therapist before the police got involved....
Now i get it:o)

NZ registered Osteopath. BSc (Hons) Osteopathy, Oxford Brookes University.
NZ registered / Government regulated Primary care practitioner.

If you leave behind all the controversy about chiropractic and the claims made about what it can do and just stick to back pain problems then your question can be answered very easily.

Going to a chiropractor will help you if you have spinal problems. Massage therapy will help you if you have muscle problems. More often than not, most people experience both problems simultaneously. So both approaches can help you.

Chiropractic helps to relieve pain by changing the firing of A beta fiber mechanoreceptors at Lamina I and V. Also the manipulation to the spine can activate inhibitory pathways from the periaqueductal grey matter at lamina II and V. This has been shown over and over again and is accepted in the literature in well respected scientific peer reviewed journals. I suggest our skeptic friends look this up. Dave states that chiropractic is nothing more than massage therapy (or worse), but I have never seen or heard of a study that can activate the bodys neurology such as this. When these people talk about studies that say that chiro does not help or is of limited value they fail to reference that the studies are done by people or industry that has an inherent bias. The medical community should police themselves as vigorously as they scream about altmed.

With the chiropractic care a qualified massage therapist can help to alleviate the concurrent muscle spasms that often occur with aberrant proprioception. This means that a massage can help relax muscles that were tight from bad nerve flow. Again, no one can dispute that muscles are innervated by nerves and when a muscle is overstimulated it fails to function properly.

Sorry this answer was so complex, but I am trying to answer it for you at the same time as addressing some of the gross misrepresentations and half truths spoken here. You can also take pain meds which are also scientifically proven but also carry the risk of side effect and a growing problem of addiction. Feel free to email me of you want additional clarification of anything.

Edit: there is a reference to quackwatch listed here as well. You should be informed that this site was developed and run by a "gentleman" that was called out in a court of law and found to be grossly mis-representing his qualifications as a medical professional. Please note:
Dr. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch Exposed In Court Cases
At trial, under a heated cross-examination by Negrete, Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam.

This was a major revelation since Barrett had provided supposed expert testimony as a psychiatrist and had testified in numerous court cases. Barrett also had said that he was a legal expert even though he had no formal legal training.

The most damning testimony before the jury, under the intense cross-examination by Negrete, was that Barrett had filed similar defamation lawsuits against almost 40 people across the country within the past few years and had not won one single one at trial.
During the course of his examination, Barrett also had to concede his ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Food & Drug Administration (FDA).
Date: October 13, 2005
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
Court Case: Stephen Barrett, M.D. vs. Tedd Koren, D.C. and Koren Publications, Inc.
Court of Common Pleas of Lehigh County for the State of Pennsylvania
Court Case No.: 2002-C-1837
Contact: Carlos F. Negrete
LAW OFFICES OF CARLOS F. NEGRETE
San Juan Capistrano, CA 92675

Interesting those that choose to respond to my post only seem to want to address the comments about the quackwatch info. No one has anything to say about the neurology and proven components of care. The arguments about the credibility of quackwatch is NOT the subject here. This was just an addition to what another poster had to say. Funny how there in nothing to be said about my actual answer and how it can help in a valid way.